Comments on: Relevance and learning by doing http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/ Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:31:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: msbarnsley http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-58 msbarnsley Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:54:44 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-58 Hi Audrey, thanks for your comment. Don't despair at my post, I don't mean to imply that cognitive and experiential learning are mutually exclusive concepts and I agree that they can be as you write " two sides of the same coin". My concern is that only one side of that coin, namely cognitive, predominates as we struggle to cram as much information in as possible (the tyranny of content over process) and students are not provided with enough opportunity to learn by "doing". I agree that powerful learning can take place when students are pushed to move beyond their comfort zones but this can be done through experiential learning and service projects. However, it is vital that learning is relevant, rather than merely being "nice". Student disengagement from school is of real concern - if they're not listening then what we say is of little consequence... Hi Audrey, thanks for your comment. Don’t despair at my post, I don’t mean to imply that cognitive and experiential learning are mutually exclusive concepts and I agree that they can be as you write ” two sides of the same coin”. My concern is that only one side of that coin, namely cognitive, predominates as we struggle to cram as much information in as possible (the tyranny of content over process) and students are not provided with enough opportunity to learn by “doing”. I agree that powerful learning can take place when students are pushed to move beyond their comfort zones but this can be done through experiential learning and service projects. However, it is vital that learning is relevant, rather than merely being “nice”. Student disengagement from school is of real concern – if they’re not listening then what we say is of little consequence…

]]> By: audrey http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-57 audrey Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:19:50 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-57 I plan to read your entry again, click the links and learn more about what you're saying, but I have to say that my first response is always despair when I hear good teachers suggest a conflict between cognitive and experiential learning. For me, they are two essential sides of the same coin. I liken it to the musician who learns to play music. Unless all he wants to do is be a happy, mediocre noodler, he must practice scales and longtones. Similarly, the writer or speaker who wants to move people must command the language, not merely use it. That means understanding the structure of your language, rhetorical devices, the use of punctuation and sentence length to create rhthym, etc. Secondly, it's nice to be relevant, but relevance is not the only issue. Especially if we want our children to be more than the sum of their current understanding. It's always affirming to create work that children enjoy, but there's no question that their reference points are limited. They need to be taken somewhere they haven't been and they will sometimes fight you, because they can't go where they need to go and still stay in their comfort zone. I plan to read your entry again, click the links and learn more about what you’re saying, but I have to say that my first response is always despair when I hear good teachers suggest a conflict between cognitive and experiential learning. For me, they are two essential sides of the same coin. I liken it to the musician who learns to play music. Unless all he wants to do is be a happy, mediocre noodler, he must practice scales and longtones. Similarly, the writer or speaker who wants to move people must command the language, not merely use it. That means understanding the structure of your language, rhetorical devices, the use of punctuation and sentence length to create rhthym, etc.

Secondly, it’s nice to be relevant, but relevance is not the only issue. Especially if we want our children to be more than the sum of their current understanding. It’s always affirming to create work that children enjoy, but there’s no question that their reference points are limited. They need to be taken somewhere they haven’t been and they will sometimes fight you, because they can’t go where they need to go and still stay in their comfort zone.

]]> By: Clay Burell http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-47 Clay Burell Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:55:32 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-47 Back for more, Cindy. Just a note that the Yahoo Project I assigned for our final project (much like your Protest one) <i>did</i> focus on writing skills. After giving students a couple days to decide what Yahoo behavior in the world they wished they could mitigate, I had them do a "free" persuasive writing piece as their first draft of "sounding off" about whatever they chose. Then I had them identify any figurative language in those drafts, suspecting (rightly, as it turned out) that they would find little or none. So they revised (after watching the "Animal School" digital story as an example of an extended analogy), this time with instructions to include a hefty handful of figurative language specimens in their next draft. I let them weed out any that felt forced for their last draft for the multimedia project. I also had them reflect on the difference such language artistry made in the effectiveness of their work, comparing the first and final drafts. Their reflections showed they got it, overall; and so did the contrast between their first and final drafts. My point: yes, we should be writing/communication arts teachers. I fear I'm not clear on that. :( Back for more, Cindy. Just a note that the Yahoo Project I assigned for our final project (much like your Protest one) did focus on writing skills.

After giving students a couple days to decide what Yahoo behavior in the world they wished they could mitigate, I had them do a “free” persuasive writing piece as their first draft of “sounding off” about whatever they chose.

Then I had them identify any figurative language in those drafts, suspecting (rightly, as it turned out) that they would find little or none.

So they revised (after watching the “Animal School” digital story as an example of an extended analogy), this time with instructions to include a hefty handful of figurative language specimens in their next draft.

I let them weed out any that felt forced for their last draft for the multimedia project.

I also had them reflect on the difference such language artistry made in the effectiveness of their work, comparing the first and final drafts.

Their reflections showed they got it, overall; and so did the contrast between their first and final drafts.

My point: yes, we should be writing/communication arts teachers. I fear I’m not clear on that. :(

]]> By: Doug Noon http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-44 Doug Noon Mon, 16 Jul 2007 05:05:22 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-44 I'm thinking that part of the "art" of teaching isn't so much a matter of harnessing or exploiting student interests as helping them to broaden their interests and their range of concerns. I say this because I was a bit disappointed last term with the writing my students produced, and I'm hoping to find the missing pieces to this puzzle. I think we should focus on the language of learning as an essential component of inquiry, and couple that with real-world projects. But this question of "how" is a big one. Best of luck with your upcoming projects. The efforts we make and discuss are a resource for everyone's benefit. Thanks. I’m thinking that part of the “art” of teaching isn’t so much a matter of harnessing or exploiting student interests as helping them to broaden their interests and their range of concerns. I say this because I was a bit disappointed last term with the writing my students produced, and I’m hoping to find the missing pieces to this puzzle.

I think we should focus on the language of learning as an essential component of inquiry, and couple that with real-world projects. But this question of “how” is a big one.

Best of luck with your upcoming projects. The efforts we make and discuss are a resource for everyone’s benefit. Thanks.

]]> By: Clay Burell http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-41 Clay Burell Sun, 15 Jul 2007 04:13:11 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-41 Hi Cindy ~ There's a lot here to think about, Sylvia's response included. One thing that comes to mind is obvious, but in my monomania about relevance and citizenship lately, maybe needs saying. It's that our students are with us for nine months. Out of all that time, to find at least one project that students won't see as "artificial" - or to try, anyway, and refine for next time - maybe that's a start. To connect further dots, the opposite of "artificial" is "real (world)." So to tie communication to something they care about in that real world seems a logical thing. Next dot is the one that I don't see included in most discussions: tying communication to practical action, beyond language. Wouldn't a "Research - Communicate - Act" cycle add a vital layer of learning to the traditional "Research - Communicate" cycle? And wouldn't the planning of strategies for the highest leverage approach to effecting change get those critical thinking juices flowing, and critical reflective writing as well? This is helping give me an idea. Nine months is a long time for a classroom. To structure the year with a beginning exploration, individualized, about what students wish they could act to change in our world (ideally locally); to encourage throughout the coming months a two-pronged inquiry consisting of 1) learning about the issue they've chosen, and 2) solving the "problem" of how they can most effectively use the tools at hand (like this one) to create change locally (and ideally, through networking, globally, if we could just get students connecting); then to end the year with enough time for them to implement their strategy to create change. Real world project-based learning. That's really what we're all doing right now, as we push at the limits of our thinking about this project of inviting our students into the adult world. We've got a project, and it's magnetically pulling us back to our keyboards, back to each other, because we all share a common practical goal - making schooling relevant, making students world-changing adults to whatever degree. Who's to say students couldn't experience that same magnetism with projects of their own? And an essential component of any student project is going to circle back to the traditional language arts focus on communicating powerfully with words and more, and to have our facts straight and so on. I can't wait to be able to distill this idea into a few simple maxims or principles.... :) Gotta run. I've got some students coming over in two hours, and must clean house :) Hi Cindy ~ There’s a lot here to think about, Sylvia’s response included.

One thing that comes to mind is obvious, but in my monomania about relevance and citizenship lately, maybe needs saying. It’s that our students are with us for nine months. Out of all that time, to find at least one project that students won’t see as “artificial” – or to try, anyway, and refine for next time – maybe that’s a start.

To connect further dots, the opposite of “artificial” is “real (world).” So to tie communication to something they care about in that real world seems a logical thing.

Next dot is the one that I don’t see included in most discussions: tying communication to practical action, beyond language. Wouldn’t a “Research – Communicate – Act” cycle add a vital layer of learning to the traditional “Research – Communicate” cycle? And wouldn’t the planning of strategies for the highest leverage approach to effecting change get those critical thinking juices flowing, and critical reflective writing as well?

This is helping give me an idea. Nine months is a long time for a classroom. To structure the year with a beginning exploration, individualized, about what students wish they could act to change in our world (ideally locally); to encourage throughout the coming months a two-pronged inquiry consisting of 1) learning about the issue they’ve chosen, and 2) solving the “problem” of how they can most effectively use the tools at hand (like this one) to create change locally (and ideally, through networking, globally, if we could just get students connecting); then to end the year with enough time for them to implement their strategy to create change.

Real world project-based learning.

That’s really what we’re all doing right now, as we push at the limits of our thinking about this project of inviting our students into the adult world. We’ve got a project, and it’s magnetically pulling us back to our keyboards, back to each other, because we all share a common practical goal – making schooling relevant, making students world-changing adults to whatever degree. Who’s to say students couldn’t experience that same magnetism with projects of their own?

And an essential component of any student project is going to circle back to the traditional language arts focus on communicating powerfully with words and more, and to have our facts straight and so on.

I can’t wait to be able to distill this idea into a few simple maxims or principles…. :)

Gotta run. I’ve got some students coming over in two hours, and must clean house :)

]]> By: Sylvia Martinez, USA http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Sylvia Martinez, USA Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:20:17 +0000 http://taspd.edublogs.org/2007/07/15/relevance-and-learning-by-doing/#comment-40 Hi Cindy, I really appreciate your thinking out loud on this subject. I can tell you that when I was in school, I was a good student but really the only thing that I loved was math. I did what I was told to do in all other classes, but most of the time it just seemed like teacher tricks to get me to write or speak in public, which I hated. Then you have to listen to teachers tell you your writing is average, or mechanical, or boring -- well, duh. I'm not sure what the answer is, because maybe it was good for me to stretch and be forced to do things outside my comfort zone, but on the other hand, it reinforced my certainty of my own lack of talent in writing and speaking. Learning by doing is great, but does everyone have to do the same thing? I know when you are teaching a class called "English" the teacher don't have much choice but to focus on written and oral communication. How do you balance the desire to teach students to communicate in authentic ways (obviously a good thing) with the widely varying aptitudes and inclinations of students to focus on their own interests and perceived talents? So many questions... Hi Cindy,
I really appreciate your thinking out loud on this subject. I can tell you that when I was in school, I was a good student but really the only thing that I loved was math. I did what I was told to do in all other classes, but most of the time it just seemed like teacher tricks to get me to write or speak in public, which I hated. Then you have to listen to teachers tell you your writing is average, or mechanical, or boring — well, duh.

I’m not sure what the answer is, because maybe it was good for me to stretch and be forced to do things outside my comfort zone, but on the other hand, it reinforced my certainty of my own lack of talent in writing and speaking.

Learning by doing is great, but does everyone have to do the same thing? I know when you are teaching a class called “English” the teacher don’t have much choice but to focus on written and oral communication. How do you balance the desire to teach students to communicate in authentic ways (obviously a good thing) with the widely varying aptitudes and inclinations of students to focus on their own interests and perceived talents?

So many questions…

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